shhhhhh...

topic posted Sat, April 19, 2008 - 11:03 PM by 
Hello all!

I was one of the DMs at Sedusa's Garden last night- and it was a spectacular event, thank you to the hosts for all their hard work! However during my shift I had several issues- not with people in scene, but with the others watching in the dungeon. Specifically, there was A LOT of social conversation going on (as well as several issues with cell phones etc) in the downstairs area. I hope people are all aware of the rule that there is to be no social conversation in the lower dungeon? We want to maintain the energy of the space and respect the people in scene- it is EXTREMELY disruptive to be playing and have someone in earshot talking about visiting their mom in the hospital and their new co-worker and they heard this great joke today etc. I know it is easy to forget, and when not DMing I have on occasion had the DM remind me to keep quiet- you see someone you know, and before you realize it, your socializing has gotten louder and is disruptive to the scene next to you. There are other play spaces in the SF Bay Area (Power Exchange, KS, etc) where there are no rules about this kind of thing, but at the Citadel we are trying to do something different- we want people to be able to play with intensity and not have to worry about being disrupted in this manner.

I don't mind reminding people to be quiet in the dungeon- as I said, I understand that it's easy to forget, and it's part of my job as a DM. And I am always VERY polite about it, usually approaching the people involved with a smile and a finger over my lips, whispering something like "sorry, no conversations down here!" As a DM, I understand that the purpose of having this rule is to keep scenes from being disrupted, so when I see people having a fairly quiet conversation I stand next to the closest scene to them and see if I can hear the conversation. If I can, I go and remind the people watching to keep quiet. If I can't, I let it go. That said, most of the people I reminded to be quiet downstairs at the party last night were downright nasty about it. I got glares, argument, rolled eyes, the works. Now, I understand that at some of the parties they are a bit more relaxed- when I DM'd at a women's party, for example, I was told that they're very social parties and they didn't really sweat conversations in the dungeon. I am fine with DMing that way in those situations- hell, it makes my job easier! But I think people need to understand that for other parties, the rule is no conversation downstairs. We have a whole upstairs for you to socialize in. This applies also to when the scene and aftercare are over and you are packing up toybags. Speaking loudly to your partner about where the toys go, what we're going to do after this, what kind of food is upstairs, etc within earshot of another ongoing scene is just not OK. (I understand that sometimes packing up is part of the scene, but I can tell the difference, and when in doubt I assume it's part of a scene.)

All of which is just to say, if a DM tells you to please keep it down, remember that you would probably like the observers to be quiet during your scenes and the DM is only trying to do their job and preserve the energy of the dungeon. We really appreciate you not giving us a hard time!

Thanks,

Chey
SF Citadel host and frequent DM
posted by:
  • Re: shhhhhh...

    Sat, April 19, 2008 - 11:47 PM
    Very well put Chey.

    Thank you.

    Remember, we serve food and drink and have conversation areas upstairs. We encourage talking upstairs.

    The downstairs is not, in any way, a place for casual conversation.

    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 1:40 AM
      How hard can it be when a DM makes a polite request for people to show common courtesy can it be?????DM's and all the other volunteers work hard to make sure everyone has a good time. Please be gracious when some one as nice as Chey says ssshhh. No one is asking people not to socialize , just that they please move to where it is more comfortable for everyone.
    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 2:30 PM
      I love verbal whether im topping or bottoming and I and/or the person (i like dicks and clits) im playin with can get loud during a scene. like "stick ur ass out Bitch like ur gonna be f....!" "Get those panties down and squeeeel!", resistance play with bottom yelling "no, No!" Its a turn on for me and often part of my play.
      Is this permitted on the bottom floor at the citadel?
      Also I think Its presumptious to say that someone elses screaming is not apropriate for their play.
      and as was pointed out many phones take photos and if someone whips out a cell phone in any play space im playin in, ill get on their case ("softly" at first contact), unless its a medical emergency. dont feel i have to be a dm to do so, and i should not have to watch and worry if someone might take a sneak pic, just dont use em around me when im playin, period.
      as always;
      pervon folks!
    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Mon, April 21, 2008 - 11:59 AM
      That's been the biggest thing I've run into as well in the few times I've DM'd so far. I worked at Fandango and at the Dog and Pony party. Both times thing thing I had to say the most was "excuse me, please limit your conversations to in-scene conversations only". Most people were receptive or even apologetic about it, but a couple people were like "but I was talking bout rope" or I'm not distracting anyone" (and they were loud too).

      I personally don't think "How do you like this new rope?" and "where did you get that corset?" count as in scene conversations, and unless you're in the particular scene, you can't know for sure whether you're distracting someone or not, so better to have those talks upstairs where those talks are suppose to be.
      • Re: shhhhhh...

        Tue, April 22, 2008 - 1:51 PM
        Thank you Alecs for your insight and simplicity.
        It is amazing to me that people DON"T READ the rules because, as I have heard individual people say, " I have been coming here since the beginning and I know the rules". Then later you see them texting on their cell phone or all sprawled out on a piece of equipment, drinking a drink, other than water, including alcohol, ( I for one have been an advocate for nothing down stairs because we provide water there already with fresh water as well as CLEAN CUPS for use) which shows they either have no respect for themselves or the other people that they call friends or they haven't read the rules. There are only 4 people who have the right to have their cell phone on in the dungeon, those are Ms. August, Mr. Phil, Erik and myself (when either Ms. August or Mr. Phil are not in the building). Erik's as well as my phone doesn't have a camera and doesn't have recording ability (stone age technology), my phone is used for communications between my owners and their slave. We can control phone security between those 4 persons as well as anonnimity for those in the space. Any other phones we can't, so the rule is "NO OPERATING PHONES BEYOND THE DRAPES AT THE FRONT DESK" for the safety and security of our members.
        There are exceptions and those are, 1) on call police or fire personel, 2) on call Doctors or nursing personel and any other persons on a need basis with approval from Ms. August or Mr. Phil. Ms. August or Mr. Phil are the "ONLY" persons which can give an exception to the rule.
        For those people who think persons "PARTICIPATING" in a scene are to loud, the answer is quite simple, "GET EARPLUGS". I find when I am in a scene I don't have the ability to focus on other people's play or noise level because I am focusing on "MY SCENE", Topping or Bottoming, which is more important to me than what other people are doing. Sometimes I think some people play on a "See me, look at me, I am the most important person here, which they are NOT because every person that comes through the front doors are important to The Citadel and those of us whose wish is that everyone have a good time.

        • Unsu...
           

          Re: shhhhhh...

          Tue, April 22, 2008 - 3:39 PM
          <<There are only 4 people who have the right to have their cell phone on in the dungeon, those are Ms. August, Mr. Phil, Erik and myself (when either Ms. August or Mr. Phil are not in the building).>>

          While I understand completely Phil and August having their cell phones, it does bother me a bit that you and Erik carry them....wouldn't the walkie talkies the DMs carry serve the same purpose?...And while you and your position at the Citadel may be known to many, there are going to be people who don't know you and may think, well, that guy has his fone down here, why can't I? And if it is a matter of you or Erik needing to get a hold of Phil or August (if they are not in the building) you can always step behind the curtain or go into the office.

          Even when I am hosting the Flash party, I do not carry my cell fone past the locker area, but step past the curtain if I need to use a fone.
          • Re: shhhhhh...

            Tue, April 22, 2008 - 4:13 PM
            I am sorry that you missed the rest of the sentence(s) that said it was for communication between them selves and there slave, meaning that if they are not in the building and either wants to get in touch with me, which they do periodically the walkie talkies will not transmit from Oakland or even next door. When both are in the building, unless i forget that I have it on which does happen, I don't have it on for the most part.
            You have never seen me using my phone during a party for pleasure calls, talking to my broker or any situation other than communications with Ms. August or Mr. Phil. When calls have come in from my owners I do find a quiet place and have gone outside at times.
            As I have said, I do not have a camera or recording ability on my phone and if anyone wishes to check, just ask to see my phone.
            I may also say that sometimes, even though my phone is on my side, it is off. Emergencies happen when they are least expected!
            • Re: shhhhhh...

              Tue, April 22, 2008 - 4:25 PM
              Michael, Eric and the party hosts may carry phones if we are not in the building and we may even be out of town.

              Normally it is only August and I who have them on their persons.
  • Re: shhhhhh...

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 2:09 AM
    Thanks Chey.

    I am a self admitted "loud talker" (too much punk rock and server rooms has destroyed my high-end hearing) and I have been guilty of this too many times to count. :( However, I'm always trying to improve. :)

    M
  • Re: shhhhhh...

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 6:44 AM
    I can't remember if there's one of these or not, but how about a sign by the stairs that says something like "Now entering a no talking zone", kind of like the quiet zone signs for hospitals?

    For the visually inclined, it could have a picture of a person with an orange armband throttling someone talking on a cellphone :-D
    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 7:16 AM
      As part of the build today new profesional quality sgns are being installed. It includes no talking downstairs. Hope this will help.
      • Re: shhhhhh...

        Sun, April 20, 2008 - 8:32 AM
        Thanks, Harry. Also, I am not comfortable with cell phones being allowed in the dungeon. Almost all of them have photo taking capabilities, and my boy and girl don't want to be outed.

        We need to make this a no cell phone area.

        Thanks.

        Domina
      • Re: shhhhhh...

        Sun, April 20, 2008 - 9:44 AM
        You know, Harry, you could install a flashing neon "No Talking" sign and that won't stop the self centered, self righteous "the dungeon revolves around me" people. But I know that the signs you make will look great!

        :O)
  • Re: shhhhhh...

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 8:56 AM
    As a spectator, I have no problem with the no-talking rule. As a bottom, I have mixed feelings. The last time I played at the Citadel, there was a very loud bottom at the next station to ours, screaming her silly head off for no real reason that I could see (she was getting a light flogging). It was very distracting and made it difficult to stay in my head space. Spectator chat in the background would not have made it any worse.

    I have been in many other dungeon spaces where there is no separate social room, and the background talk never bothers me unless it is very loud and close by.
    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 10:26 AM
      I'll second this post. Quiet spectator chat is less distracting for me than someone screaming out of proportion to the scene they are in, it messes with my head space too. Not that some scenes don't merit piercing screams when it's really intense, but some people do seem to really need to vocalize even during light play. However, I do believe that greater leeway with respect to noise generation must be given to people who are actually doing a scene as opposed to just spectating.

      I've definitely been guilty of chatting too loudly downstairs at the Citadel and I am trying to get better about that.

      Dealing with these issues is part and parcel of playing in a public dungeon I suppose. I'm glad to accept correction when I stray and I think Phil, August, the DMs, and the other volunteers do a good job controlling things.
      • Re: shhhhhh...

        Sun, April 20, 2008 - 11:37 AM

        > Quiet spectator chat is less distracting for me than someone screaming out of proportion to the scene they are in, it messes with my head space too.

        Hmmm. It seems to me that someone who is able to evaluate whether the screaming "is out of proportion to the scene they are in", must not be concentrating or present for their own scene.

        Personally, hearing screams from other scenes doesn't distract me, it just gets me more in the mood. Maybe that's just me. I do tend to be quite loud when I bottom, often to my embarrassment later.

    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 10:43 AM
      "screaming her silly head off for no real reason that I could see"

      Perhaps the reason is that she enjoys screaming while she plays? I've had more than one partner who really got off on being able to let go like that, and they just wouldn't be having as much fun if they couldn't vocalize. It's not my kink, but if it's someone else's I'm not going to judge.

      And Chey, than you for enforcing the rule in a pragmatic manner. I've always wished the rule was "don't talk loud enough to bother people who are playing", but that's a much harder one to write and enforce. It sucks that people were rude to you about it.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 11:01 AM
      While I think ..."screaming her silly head off for no real reason that I could see (she was getting a light flogging). " is a bit of a value judgment, the way you state it, you have brought up an interesting point.

      Yes, people DO scream in play (whether or not you see or understand the cause) it is a dungeon after all, however I also understand what you mean when you say that repeated extreme screaming, (especially when they are screaming words and phrases) not only CAN totally pull one out of the head space they are in it almost seems to non consensually pull you into their scene when you are wanting to stay in your own...LOL .

      Generally, those types of really loud, earsplitting, cross thumping, foot stamping scenes generally are done upstairs (a practice I am in total accord with) and that actually does help a bit. The bottom floor is generally the quieter part of the dungeon, hence the no talking rule. Because of the closeness of the downstairs space, noises do not escape as easily and are considerably more distracting downstairs than it is upstairs. Many people choose to do their quieter, intense scenes downstairs (ie needles, cutting, electricity) specifically because of the no talking 'shhhhh'... rule and they are able to really concentrate on what they are doing.


      Side note here: Oftentimes scene screaming is as much for the top as it is a natural release or reaction to a sensation for a bottom. Many tops relish the sounds of screaming as a favorite part of a scene. To see how loud one can make another scream, is a huge turn on for many Tops and many bottoms find screaming to be a freeing release in scene in addition to perhaps being a natural reaction to something that is incredibly overwhelming, (like stubbing your toe...lol).

      I would say that if you are a player that enjoys lots of noise, screaming, begging and or having your bottom ,(or yourself) yell responses to your questions like... "PLEASE SIR FUCK ME IN MY ASS BEFORE I DIE OF DESIRE" or "IM A FILTHY WORTHLESS WHORE THAT HUMBLY BEGS YOU STAND ON MY NECK AND LET ME LICK THE DOG SHIT FROM YOUR BOOTS" and "IM A LITTLE TEAPOT SHORT AND STOUT, THIS IS MY HANDLE, THIS IS MY..." consider playing upstairs where there is already talking, milling about and general overall socializing going on, your scene will get a lot more attention and you give people the opportunity to interact even if it is only by watching and talking amongst themselves about what you and your partner are doing.


      • Unsu...
         

        Re: shhhhhh...

        Sun, April 20, 2008 - 11:16 AM
        hrmmm, not sure I totally agree with all of it. So when I play with my Owner, she hits me very hard. And I'm not a masochist. I hence make a lot of noise because it hurts like hell! Then when we do punching scenes, I laugh a lot. I can't control it. It's a cathartic release and again, I get very loud. I don't think I should have to play upstairs where the environment is not sexy. It's bright, people mill around, the music isn't as intense. I don't want to play in a place like that.

        This is a public play space, so I feel like I should be able to play in the play area. If folks want that much quiet and privacy, they should consider playing privately. While I totally agree that talking in the play area should be curtailed, scene noise happens. Everything is a compromise, and playing in public means you compromise a bit on the playspace in regards to quiet and privacy. It's one of the reasons I will play at a private playspace if I'm out for heavy cathartic play rather than just a rolicking good time.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: shhhhhh...

          Sun, April 20, 2008 - 11:28 AM
          I am not trying to paint with a broad brush here Mercedes, I personally LOVE, hearing and causing screaming and hollering and crying and begging they are all lovely things to hear and evoke when in the dungeon. What I am talking about are the players that regularly enjoy EXTREMELY loud 'scene long' screaming at the top of their lungs as a hugely important part of their play.

          If I as a top know that I am going to play with someone that loves screaming, swearing, yelling and banging around, I am going to play with them upstairs out of consideration for those downstairs that want a 'quieter' environment and for the enjoyment and freedom of playing upstairs and for those watching.
        • Re: shhhhhh...

          Mon, April 21, 2008 - 2:27 PM
          This is a public play space, so I feel like I should be able to play in the play area. If folks want that much quiet and privacy, they should consider playing privately.


          The other side of that coin could be if people have to scream and and yell just to process their pain, perhaps they should consider playing privately. My point being, in a perfect world we would be considerate of each other and the screamers would not bother the quiet folks, and the quiet folks would not want to limit the screamers, blah blah blah. Though, I have to say on more than one occasion, I have been guilty of wanting to hand a certain top a gag for their partner, so we could enjoy our own scene without hearing the obnoxiously loud screams from their partner.

          I don't think there really is a true solution to the problem, other than, perhaps keeping ear plugs in your toy bag. I keep several pairs in my needle kit at all times.
      • Re: shhhhhh...

        Sun, April 20, 2008 - 12:06 PM
        "..."screaming her silly head off for no real reason that I could see (she was getting a light flogging). " is a bit of a value judgment,"

        I intended no criticism or value judgment. They had a perfect right to be there doing what they were doing. Defnitions of "light" and "heavy" etc. are entirely subjective. We could have moved our scene further away, but there were no other open play spaces. The point I was trying to make was that background chat is not necessarily the most distracting sound in the dungeon. I hate some of the music choices too.
      • Re: shhhhhh...

        Mon, April 21, 2008 - 10:03 AM
        "screaming her silly head off for no real reason that I could see (she was getting a light flogging).


        I have a real problem with this statement. What may be a light flogging for one person might be heavy play for another. I have one many occasions been flogging someone or whatever and they react heavily to what I would consider to be light play. I have played with people that I just can't hit them light enough. What kind of message are we sending to people with statements? Are really go to start judging people's play like this? Is this the direction this community is going?
    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 11:56 PM
      I believe there are two sides to this.

      On the one hand, we don't want any particular scene to blow the environment for all other scenes. On the other hand, we don't want to force everyone to play silently either.

      I believe there is a limit to the level of noise one scene can make downstairs. I don't know of any formal rule encoding this convention but the issue has come up around the use of single tails. I also know of one person who was asked to play exclusively upstairs because of the noise she made.

      In pretty much every play space I've ever played in, there was a limit to the amount of disruption that one scene could allow to impinge on another. Whether that spillover was due to backswings, blood spray castoff, or loud noise only changed the type of response slightly. If a particular scene clears a dungeon, then I think there's a mighty good argument that that scene didn't belong in that space at that event at that time.
  • Re: shhhhhh...

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 9:39 AM
    I seriously doubt anyone who gave you a "hairy eye" or other "stuff" about it belongs to this list. If they do and read this they need to know to STFU and/or take it upstairs.

    I know you well enough to know that you are a very sweet girl and I have no doubt that your examples went down as described. Anyone that gives you or any other DM anything other than a mouthed "I'm sorry" or something similar just shows their level of class. I'd bet no one here (Citadel mebership list) is innocent, myself included, of breaking that particular rule and I'm sure you never got static for it from most of us when you've called us on it.

    Sorry for the sidetrack but these questions just have to be asked ...

    Does anyone know or think that, in similar situations, that female DMs get more crap than males do? How about any differences between F DMs encountering F/M patrons? Fellas? You guys get any s*** when you encounter similar situations? Do you even have these problems?

    Enquiring minds want to know.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 11:12 AM
      When I DM I don't notice any sort of discernible pattern on the rare occasion that someone gives me eyes, hairy, stink or otherwise based on my gender. I am not saying that it does not happen, I am saying merely that I hasn't been noteworthy. Then again, I don't DM as often as Chey does and things might be different if I did.


  • Re: shhhhhh...

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 12:03 PM
    Chey's post is entirely correct.

    The rules at the Citadel are very clear and have been since they opened at their new location. No cell phones on past the front curtains, and no social (non-scene related) talking (including lengthy negotiations) in the downstairs dungeon.

    Making noise in scene is different and completely appropriate.

    I also know that Chey is extremely polite about approaching people when she is DMing (as she was very polite when she invited me to take my soda upstairs a year or so ago).

    Moreover, even if a DM gives you an instruction that you don't agree with, the place to discuss it is not in the dungeon, it is upstairs, respectfully. In order to maintain a safe, conducive playspace the DM's word needs to be law, appealable only to the party hosts and/or owners, and then only in a respectful manner and only OUT of the downstairs dungeon.

    Many years ago I had a scene wrongfully shut down by a DM at a play party (not at the Citadel). I did not argue or make a fuss in the dungeon. I shut down the scene quietly and went to the social area, then got together with the offending DM and the party host and plead my case. I received and apology and the party hosts never allowed that person to DM again, but we never disrupted play in the dungeon itself. (And this only applies to a real mistake on the part of the DM, which Chey certainly did NOT make in politely asking people to stop their conversations or take them upstairs).
  • Re: shhhhhh...

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 2:12 PM
    Thanks for the reminder. I've been guilty as charged a couple of times and took no offense whatever when politely shushed by either a DM or somebody who was being disturbed. In fact, I appreciated having it called to my attention. But, then, I'm a masochist! Seriously, sorry you had to put up with people resenting it. Also, I totally don't get what's up with people and their cell phones being on in the play area. Talk about clueless!

    At PE, I once was in a situation where there was a young guy "capturing the moments" with a cell phone cam in one of the dark rooms where a number of people were engaged in what people do there. I tried to get him to shut it off, but he told me to "mind your own business, old man." Inasmuch as he was bigger than me, and I had no desire to see myself on YouTube, I just left.
    • Re: shhhhhh...

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 7:16 PM
      The thing about having "No Talking Signs" downstairs is that they will help, but there are still a few bozos that will forget and/or assume the signs are meant for someone else, not them. Last weekend during my DM shift, I saw three women and one man chatting two feet from a scene. And when I approached them and politely asked them not to talk in the dungeon, one of the women glared at me and the guy later made some snide remark to me. There's also one of the munch groups who attends periodically and every time they show up, a few of them insist on talking in the dungeon. A few of them say "Oh right..sorry" when I ask them to be quiet and I've had a few give me a dirty look. Last night there were three people downstairs talking and since it was quiet, I didn't really enforce the "no talking rule" other than to point out to them that if a lot of scenes were going on, I would have asked them to take their chat back upstairs. Now some of these folk are new, but yet it seems to me that IF you read the rules and it says "no talking in the dungeon," they would remember that. Guess not <shrug>. Perhaps if some of these folk who chose to talk loudly in the dungeon actually played there instead of watching and had someone interrupt their scene by loud talking, they might understand why the rule exists. *g*
      • Re: shhhhhh...

        Sun, April 20, 2008 - 9:07 PM
        I'm getting a little confused about the rules, too.

        I have been known to get the "audience" to a scene I'm doing into the scene by having them chant things to my bottom, or sing things to my bottom, or the bottom has gratuitiously screamed insults at them.

        Am I going to have to stop that?

        Domina
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: shhhhhh...

          Sun, April 20, 2008 - 9:15 PM
          I do not think that there are any rules regarding scene noise, other than gratuitous whip cracking (sound barrier breaking kind). I can't even imagine trying to enforce something like that holycow!!!
          • Re: shhhhhh...

            Mon, April 21, 2008 - 10:02 AM
            I go to Edges if I want to use my single tail. I was told that if your single tail cracks, that's not allowed. And I don't see the point in hitting someone with a single tail that doesn't leave marks.

            Domina
            • Re: shhhhhh...

              Mon, April 21, 2008 - 10:53 AM
              I go to Edges if I want to use my single tail. I was told that if your single tail cracks, that's not allowed. And I don't see the point in hitting someone with a single tail that doesn't leave marks.

              I crack my whip down stairs all the time and never get into trouble for it. I think that a lot of players as well as DMs are a little confused by this rule or maybe I am the one confused but I think what it comes down to is amount and intent. If you do a lot of loud cracking just to hear the whip crack that is wrong according to the rules. If you crack a little here and there no one seems to mind or at least that has been my experience. I also do low V cracks witch don't tend to be as loud as a performance crack.

              On a side note. The best marks are left when the whip hits the skin just as it's about to crack. The whip looses most of it's energy after it cracks and is for all intents and purposes is just falling towards the target. If the whip hits the skin just as it's about to crack it is still traveling at about 746 mph upon impact.
              • Re: shhhhhh...

                Mon, April 21, 2008 - 1:44 PM
                I asked the DM and he told me that I could not crack the whip AT ALL. I don't like having my scenes interrupted, so I decided not to use the single tail that night. Edges is cool with how I play. I don't do "gratuitious cracking" but it's going to crack a bit. And I can play elsewhere when I want to use the single tail. No biggie.

                Domina
                • Re: shhhhhh...

                  Mon, April 21, 2008 - 2:06 PM
                  My understanding seems to be that if you're cracking because you're hitting someone of course it's not an issue, nor is it usually an issue if you're cracking for the intimidation factor as a part of your scene so long as no one is complaining about it. It's those who're cracking just to show off that we should be concerned about
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: shhhhhh...

                    Mon, April 21, 2008 - 2:21 PM
                    Thank you, Alecs. That would have been my feeling, too. But I asked because I wanted to make sure. The DM just wasn't okay with it, so we did something else. No biggie. After all, we do have two dungeons in town.

                    I'm developing fire floggers and hope to have some for sale at IMsL. And it may be that we can't use them in any dungeon in town. But I'm sure we'll figure something out. Not being able to use a particular toy is not going to cause the end of the world. Really.

                    Domina